Post by Burt65 » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:18 am

paulfeakins wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:33 pm
True, you wouldn't want to end up actually knowing something ;)
Um the fact the thread is called "Why are there so many Terrible themes?!" and we're talking about code quality means it helps if you have a basic understanding of software development?
That's nice.. ;)

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...


User avatar
Active Member

Posts

Joined
Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:23 pm
Location - Oz

Post by paulfeakins » Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:04 pm

Burt65 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:18 am
That's nice.. ;)
Well it's important you understand that even if a theme looks very good like Journal does, it can still be a terrible theme if the code is a mess for the reasons I stated above which were if the store owner wants some custom features, or even bug fixes, the over-engineered code will make that very difficult even for a very competent developer. The same goes for extensions - most won't work unless they were specifically built for Journal.

But how does this affect the customer who doesn't care about code? Simple; they'll buy an extension and there will be a problem and the developer will say "Journal isn't supported" or they'll want a new feature and the developer will have to quote much higher because it is a nightmare working with Journal. Or they'll have a bug and developer after developer will be unable to fix it or will charge much more because it's much harder and more complex to work with Journal.

For quick, professional OpenCart support please email info@antropy.co.uk


User avatar
Expert Member

Posts

Joined
Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:01 pm
Location - Reigate, Surrey, United Kingdom

Post by Burt65 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:38 pm

paulfeakins wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:04 pm
Well it's important you understand that even if a theme looks very good like Journal does, it can still be a terrible theme if the code is a mess for the reasons I stated above which were if the store owner wants some custom features, or even bug fixes, the over-engineered code will make that very difficult even for a very competent developer. The same goes for extensions - most won't work unless they were specifically built for Journal.

But how does this affect the customer who doesn't care about code? Simple; they'll buy an extension and there will be a problem and the developer will say "Journal isn't supported" or they'll want a new feature and the developer will have to quote much higher because it is a nightmare working with Journal. Or they'll have a bug and developer after developer will be unable to fix it or will charge much more because it's much harder and more complex to work with Journal.
That's nice. ;)

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...


User avatar
Active Member

Posts

Joined
Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:23 pm
Location - Oz

Post by danielb123 » Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:24 pm

Journal 2, now 3 maked me to choose opencart platform, i come from WP/WOO and Prestashop, is little sad about themes and module compatibility, I was used to flawless and smooth wp amazing and cheap themes and plugins but for Journal theme i give up to all of them :D now you can say opencart = journal theme... and developers already start to make modules compatible with journal... I hope in the future OC will resolve compatibility issues and make a standard or whatever....

Journal 3 Rulz 8)


Newbie

Posts

Joined
Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:48 pm

Post by danielb123 » Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:29 pm

paulfeakins wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:32 pm
timstudio wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:32 am
So, what are good theme's to use that have flexibility to make a modern layout and don't look outdated? It is clear why people 'like' Journal. What is the best alternative?
Have a look at:
https://www.opencart.com/index.php?rout ... n_id=36706

And:
https://www.opencart.com/index.php?rout ... n_id=37931
Ugly themes, is just default theme with a little css colors :)) if i want a ugly minimalist style i will use WP there is a lot of themes with many features. Journal rulz :D

Journal 3 Rulz 8)


Newbie

Posts

Joined
Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:48 pm

Post by JNeuhoff » Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:12 am

timstudio wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:32 am
So, what are good theme's to use that have flexibility to make a modern layout and don't look outdated? It is clear why people 'like' Journal. What is the best alternative?
What do you mean by modern look? Most Journal theme skins look ugly and bloated. A customer needs to find relevant information on a website quickly, without distractions like slideshows or static background images opening up in a middle of a page, etc. A store owner shouldn't have to spend hours or days to get a theme to work.

MHC Web Design
Override Engine * Integrated VQMod * Unused Images Manager * Instant Option Price Calculator * Number Option * Google Rich Snippets * Google Tag Manager * Export/Import Tool * SpamBot Buster


User avatar
Expert Member

Posts

Joined
Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:38 am


Post by Burt65 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:03 am

Yeah... Journal looks so bloated and ugly. I can't believe that people actually are using it..

Why would you want to use Journal when you can have a site looking like this one: https://www.mhccorp.com/opencart It's madness... :laugh:

My 2009 forum did look a lot like that back then, but perhaps in 2020 we should aim at something a bit more functional and interactive and above all, not that empty.
I mean, you don't even have a scroll back to the top button FFS... The FAQ's is empty.. Contact us don't have/use google map but it does use a 11 years old captcha... The list is endless.. I have no problem in people badmouthing Journal, but if you don't want to lose your credibility or what ever is left of it, have the decency at least to put some action where your mouth is...

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...


User avatar
Active Member

Posts

Joined
Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:23 pm
Location - Oz

Post by JeepSWAG » Fri May 15, 2020 7:18 am

Serious eye opener here. I'm a shop owner and I like to dive into the settings of a theme. I do not code. I've read enough of this thread to see some of issues between those who customize stores, those who write themes and shop owners. Those who customize stores are well represented here and I'm convinced that theme writers do not take their needs into consideration. Paulfeakins is an exception and I hold a lot of respect for him. I don not believe that theme writers will do anything different, until Opencart tightens up theme development standards. I do not see Opencart doing this anytime soon. It's in the name "Open"cart.
As a shop owner you guys have done a pretty good job of freaking me out.

Here's where's what I've done. I've installed opencart, added the theme Oxy, and migrated my store from Woocommerce. Spent hours configuring Oxy and added a couple of small extensions. The whole time building a list of issues and questions for the theme author. My project is almost complete. A couple of theme design questions and one apparent technical problem with the theme. When I bought the theme, the envato notes indicated that the author's response time was about one day. All good until I opened a support ticket. Seven days go by without a response. I did some more digging and came to the conclusion that the author had abandoned the project.

Now I'm wondering if I'll have any issues when I uninstall the theme. And the greatest question of all, what theme do I go with? This thread has done a great job of raising questions, but answer are few and far between. I'm looking at Safira. Don't know if anybody would be willing to take a look for me and I don't know what anybody could see without having access to the code...

Here's where I'm at. After getting through the better part of this thread, I'm wondering what questions to ask, who to ask and how to make a good decision. Turns out there's more to it than just looking at the demo page.

I've often wondered, why Opencart doesn't have a more secure way of managing extensions on behalf of extension and theme developers. From where I sit, it seems that they could build an extension/them purchase verification system into the software. I have two online stores. One for wholesale and one for retail. I purchased a one page checkout extension and had to buy it twice because the author used a purchase verification system. It seems like this would be a good idea. That it would invite developers to add options to the market. I'm assuming that piracy is prevalent in the world you guys live in. Doesn't this seem like a no-brainer?

Newbie

Posts

Joined
Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:16 pm

Post by JNeuhoff » Sat May 16, 2020 5:31 pm

@JeepSWAG: Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences here.

I think most of us would agree with your suggestion that OpenCart needs better quality checks and standards before publishing 3rd party extensions on its marketplace. However, it doesn't have control over other sites like Envato market, the latter has a poor reputation anyway.

It always amazes me how many users there are who don't read install instructions, or who are unable to follow a simple 3 step installation procedure. And if you have to spend days to configure a web theme than something is wrong. OpenCart needs a better install system and it needs a robust package manager.

MHC Web Design
Override Engine * Integrated VQMod * Unused Images Manager * Instant Option Price Calculator * Number Option * Google Rich Snippets * Google Tag Manager * Export/Import Tool * SpamBot Buster


User avatar
Expert Member

Posts

Joined
Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:38 am


Post by Burt65 » Sun May 17, 2020 7:39 am

@JeepSWAG

It seems to me that people here are constantly confusing a "full customisable theme" with a merely simple "change of skin". And somehow a debate was initiated.

Do you want to have full control on what and how your online shop does work and looks like? Get a full customisable theme!

Do you want just to change some colours and perhaps the fonts? Get a skin!

If you do a bit of research, and perhaps a bit deeper, you will definitely understand what I mean.

Both options are available for all of us and been used by OC shop owners and members here, for years..

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...


User avatar
Active Member

Posts

Joined
Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:23 pm
Location - Oz

Post by oc2020 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:16 pm

Hello, I found this thread is very informational. I bought a theme that overwrite the core files and I need to rebuild the site again. I believe many users have the same question as me: where or how to find those "safe" themes that don't overwrite the core files? It seems no category for such a thing on most theme stores. I saw a few themes (e.g. ishop) mentioned in this thread but I'd like to see more options and decide which to buy.

New member

Posts

Joined
Wed May 13, 2020 5:11 am

Post by JNeuhoff » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:42 pm

I'm looking at Safira. Don't know if anybody would be willing to take a look for me and I don't know what anybody could see without having access to the code...
The Safira "theme" is, as far as I know, not available from the OpenCart marketplace, but is sold on the Envato market. This alone should already be a warning signal to be cautious, Envato market has a poor reputation!

Safira tries to make it's software attractive by including a bunch of non-theme related extensions, again a reason to be alert! A decent web theme has no need for it. And, looking at it's frontend demo page, it appears to change too many template files unnecessarily, and it appears to rely on a XML-based modification system (OCmod) to modify OpenCart core files. Chances are Safira will clash with a number of other 3rd party OpenCart extensions.

MHC Web Design
Override Engine * Integrated VQMod * Unused Images Manager * Instant Option Price Calculator * Number Option * Google Rich Snippets * Google Tag Manager * Export/Import Tool * SpamBot Buster


User avatar
Expert Member

Posts

Joined
Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:38 am


Post by OSWorX » Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:52 am

Burt65 wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:39 am
Both options are available for all of us and been used by OC shop owners and members here, for years..
Okay, then please - for the audience: post a few Skins and a few (good) Themes.
And as you wrote: Skins only, not Themes or Templates.

Custom Development | Individuelle Entwicklung | Support & Bugfixes

Image Image Image


User avatar
Guru Member

Posts

Joined
Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:52 pm
Location - Austria

Post by oc2020 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:54 am

OSWorX wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:52 am
Burt65 wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:39 am
Both options are available for all of us and been used by OC shop owners and members here, for years..
Okay, then please - for the audience: post a few Skins and a few (good) Themes.
And as you wrote: Skins only, not Themes or Templates.
I was also very curious about this, for education purpose. As I wrote in the previous post, I messed up my site with a theme, which in your definition is a "fully customizable theme". Now I want to be safer and looking for some themes which are actually "skins". But I don't think there's an intuitive way to find a category like this. Some links or references would be appreciated.

New member

Posts

Joined
Wed May 13, 2020 5:11 am

Post by Burt65 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:53 am

OSWorX wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:52 am
Burt65 wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:39 am
Both options are available for all of us and been used by OC shop owners and members here, for years..
Okay, then please - for the audience: post a few Skins and a few (good) Themes.
And as you wrote: Skins only, not Themes or Templates.
Sorry been in holiday... Yes, I don't think you will like my answer, but while I'm here, to me and to a lot of other people apparently, a skin is a theme like the ones from Paul. They are described accurately as minimalist, because that's what they are. If you want a "theme" where you have full control to set the theme to your liking, that IT IS what people apparently do expect today from a theme, then I don't need to tell you where to look. While you guys are busy here arguing abut this technical nonsense, some of us are out there making money.. If you read this thread from the beginning, you can clearly see that not many Opencart customer (I'm talking about those with real live shop, not the ones that download Opencart just to play with the code), are keeping the debate alive. It is manly from the few that don't like the way things are going and the few newbies that don't know how thing are going. I think if everybody would concentrate in improving what's available in the Opencart market or, as it has been suggested several times before, making something better than Journal, and maintain this forum properly (admin side, not moderators), this place could be so much more enjoyable, for everyone...

Ten years ago, I would have agreed with you guys, .. Journal is bad, a skin is only supposed to change colours and all the other bullshit going around in this thread about core changes and spaghetti code, but things have changed and if you want to stay in the game, you need to move with the flow, and much, much quicker than this. I'm not interested in this propaganda and I don't feel the need, like you guys do, to constantly tell people what they should and what they shouldn't use, to operate Opencart. Off course, like you, I have my opinion on the matter, but that should not be a reason to create a thread and try to argue with everyone who doesn't agree with you (not you Osworx, generically speaking).. Perhaps I'm too old, and as sure as hell, I don't have any secondary interests on this subject, but I'm failing to see any real benefit in this thread..

What I'm saying is: instead of trying to scare people away from using Journal, has you have all obviously failed at it, perhaps join force together and develop a new "theme" that customers are happy to buy because it works like people do expect a theme to work these days, not like you guys think it should work. Not just colours, not just fonts... that is a theme of the past.. No one wants that. No one need that anymore.. It's history.. Look around you...

You guys are all intelligent people with a serious potential to improve the game here.. Don't get stuck on technicalities and crap like this...

Cheers

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...


User avatar
Active Member

Posts

Joined
Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:23 pm
Location - Oz

Post by Burt65 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:16 pm

oc2020 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:54 am
OSWorX wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:52 am
Burt65 wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:39 am
Both options are available for all of us and been used by OC shop owners and members here, for years..
Okay, then please - for the audience: post a few Skins and a few (good) Themes.
And as you wrote: Skins only, not Themes or Templates.
I was also very curious about this, for education purpose. As I wrote in the previous post, I messed up my site with a theme, which in your definition is a "fully customizable theme". Now I want to be safer and looking for some themes which are actually "skins". But I don't think there's an intuitive way to find a category like this. Some links or references would be appreciated.
Hi oc2020,

if you read the thread in one of my previous post I clearly state that "full customisable themes" are not really for a newbie as you do have to work around few little glitches, but nothing major. What you classify as a "messed up my site" is what I'm referring to. Because of the way themes where you have full control works, you can't just install them and move on. Because of the power they give you, there is a lot more involvement than just a simple installation. If you don't want to learn the ropes, you will have to settle for a skin, or what ever people want to call it here (simple theme perhaps, don't know, don't care..). You don't need some links or references as everything has already been posted in this thread more than once.. Ask Paul. He made two theme that seems to fit your knowledge of Opencart. I'm sure he will help you in the right direction.

Cheers

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...


User avatar
Active Member

Posts

Joined
Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:23 pm
Location - Oz

Post by JNeuhoff » Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:04 pm

@ Burt65 : Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject of "themes" here.

Your expectation and comprehension of a theme is different from the majority of OpenCart users here.

To start with the terminology: Opencart doesn't use the expression "skin", it uses the the expression "theme" which may, or may not, include a number of configurable setups for colors, fonts, layout design, image sizes, etc. Features like CMS, blogs, one-page checkout, filters, re-invented slideshows etc. have NOTHING to do with a theme. If the latter are popular with users then we should discuss whether to make them perhaps part of the OpenCart core functionality.

Most users just want a quick working solution, a nice looking theme matching up with the kind of products or services suitable for their stores. And they rightly expect it to be working, without complicated setups, and without causing crashes, or clashes with other 3rd party extensions. And needless to say, you expect any 3rd party extension, including themes, to abide by the OpenCart framework standards. Quality standards are there for a reason (though sadly missing with many Opencart extensions). An online shop owner should not have to battle with software issues, he/she should just get on with selling the products or services.

Unfortunately, Journal3 pretty much fails in all of above mentioned quality standards. And the authors of that software don't appear to be willing to share with the Opencart project, as far as I know they have never participated on the Opencart forum, nor do they offer their software on its marketplace, nor do they contribute on github repository with bugfixes or improvements.

MHC Web Design
Override Engine * Integrated VQMod * Unused Images Manager * Instant Option Price Calculator * Number Option * Google Rich Snippets * Google Tag Manager * Export/Import Tool * SpamBot Buster


User avatar
Expert Member

Posts

Joined
Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:38 am


Post by Burt65 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:53 pm

JNeuhoff wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:04 pm
@ Burt65 : Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject of "themes" here.

Your expectation and comprehension of a theme is different from the majority of OpenCart users here.

To start with the terminology: Opencart doesn't use the expression "skin", it uses the the expression "theme" which may, or may not, include a number of configurable setups for colors, fonts, layout design, image sizes, etc. Features like CMS, blogs, one-page checkout, filters, re-invented slideshows etc. have NOTHING to do with a theme. If the latter are popular with users then we should discuss whether to make them perhaps part of the OpenCart core functionality.

Most users just want a quick working solution, a nice looking theme matching up with the kind of products or services suitable for their stores. And they rightly expect it to be working, without complicated setups, and without causing crashes, or clashes with other 3rd party extensions. And needless to say, you expect any 3rd party extension, including themes, to abide by the OpenCart framework standards. Quality standards are there for a reason (though sadly missing with many Opencart extensions). An online shop owner should not have to battle with software issues, he/she should just get on with selling the products or services.

Unfortunately, Journal3 pretty much fails in all of above mentioned quality standards. And the authors of that software don't appear to be willing to share with the Opencart project, as far as I know they have never participated on the Opencart forum, nor do they offer their software on its marketplace, nor do they contribute on github repository with bugfixes or improvements.
As I said, it is a pity to see so many people here getting stuck on stuff like this.. You do understand, that while you are wasting time here talking about useless terminology, Journal keep selling and nothing you say or will ever say can change that. You do understand that!? Probably not.. Are you profiting somehow by writing this stuff? I'm not paying you and to be honest I didn't even read it, because it is just the same post again and again and again.. Don't you get bored to write the same thing every day??

I think you have enough to worry in your life, than bother to try to tell me where my expectations and comprehensions went wrong.. Then again, a lot of posts around here are based on this pathetic principle. You guys know everything. We know nothing... :laugh:

If I'm the one that doesn't get it and apparently you and the "majority" of other Opencart users do, how come then that Journal is so popular, it sells so well and it is used by thousands of happy Opencart users, but you and the other few guys left here are telling me that is not? That must be a lot of stupid people like me out there using Journal.. But I tell you what.. From my point of view, it looks somewhat completely different.. Quite the opposite actually.. :laugh:

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...


User avatar
Active Member

Posts

Joined
Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:23 pm
Location - Oz

Post by JNeuhoff » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:07 pm

@Burt65: Let’s chill out here. Nobody stops you from using Journal3.

This forum thread here is about web themes, and we have posted details here from experience which will hopefully help OpenCart users to make an informed decision before running into problems.

MHC Web Design
Override Engine * Integrated VQMod * Unused Images Manager * Instant Option Price Calculator * Number Option * Google Rich Snippets * Google Tag Manager * Export/Import Tool * SpamBot Buster


User avatar
Expert Member

Posts

Joined
Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:38 am


Post by Burt65 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:18 am

JNeuhoff wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:07 pm
@Burt65: Let’s chill out here. Nobody stops you from using Journal3.

This forum thread here is about web themes, and we have posted details here from experience which will hopefully help OpenCart users to make an informed decision before running into problems.
@JNeuhoff So, if this thread is about web themes, why the hell are you keep telling people not to use the most successful theme out there??? What's your goal here, really? If you want to help me, show me something that helps me make more money, as a businessman. If you just want to help me not doing mistakes or as you called "running into problems" by giving you more money for old and obsolete ideas, you are barking up the wrong tree mate!

You don't make any sense! I have a theme that gives me full control over my site, is fully supported by the developer and it has run almost flawless for the past 5 years by making me money. But no. JNeuhoff and few other members here (that by the way do not run a live shop or are that big in sales around here) tells me that is bad. I shouldn't use Journal because of all the codes, and technical issues, and lack of support here from the developer, and what ever you want to add here...

I said this last year. The more you keep bragging about Journal, the more it sells. If you are serious about fixing the problems (what ever they are, as I got none) and really help the users around here, do something about!!! We all need a "theme" that works like Journal if not better and that does conform with OC guideline and quality standards, what ever they are.. But other than this useless conversation, I don't see much else coming down from you guys..

You said and I quote:
Features like CMS, blogs, one-page checkout, filters, re-invented slideshows etc. have NOTHING to do with a theme. If the latter are popular with users then...
Perhaps this is the real reason why you are upset about Journal. The fact that is taking profit away from you. I can understand that, but you need to understand this. You, like everybody else here, have the power to change things, and not by just bragging other people work, that does nothing if not the opposite as we all saw, but by offering the OC community, that you care so much for, something better! I can feel your love, but your hands are empty. I need to feed my kids every day and I can't feed them with your love. Simple as that..

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...


User avatar
Active Member

Posts

Joined
Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:23 pm
Location - Oz
Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests