Post by OSWorX » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:03 pm

In the last weeks we see here more and more posts from users seeking help for the Journal Theme.

Folks, this here is the OpenCart forum and no support forum for this junk.
If you have bought (or stolen) this Theme, ask the support of Journal and do not waste your time here - nobody will help you!

To "round" the discussion a bit, maybe this here should be read also: 2016 & Ongoing - Why are there so many Terrible themes?!

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Post by yodapt » Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:27 am

Well said. Sick and tired of that theme..

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Post by brettpix » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:30 pm

HI

Thanks for this. We changed from OC2.0.3.1 to OC3.0.3.2. We were trying to find a theme to use and Journal 3 was suggested by developer. The OC site says most installed theme etc etc.

We are now using this and I agree. What a massive mistake!!!

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Is there any way back from here? can we move back to a better theme that does not complicate everything?

So how do you find a good theme. I ready a lot when I started about themes and it all says to find a strong developer.

Why does OC so strongly allow this to be pushed if it is rubbish?

Have I made irreversible mistake? I would love to know your thoughts.

Thanks

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Post by Johnathan » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:14 pm

You should be able to uninstall Journal without too much difficulty. Mostly it would involve switching your theme in the System > Settings area, so you may be able to just do that and call it good. If you wanted to fully remove the Journal files, you'd need to ask the Journal support team how to do that --- I don't think they overwrite any core files, though, so just removing their ocMod files should be enough. Those should be in Extensions > Modifications or in the /system/ directory (ending in .ocmod.xml).

For a theme that doesn't change so much functionality in OpenCart, this is the only one I know of that's purely CSS:

https://www.opencart.com/index.php?rout ... n_id=36706

That will ensure that nothing should break when you install other extensions, because it's just changing the styling and not any actual code in OpenCart files. I haven't used it myself, but the developer is good and I like the look.

If anyone else has any other CSS only themes (or themes that conform to OpenCart's structure so they don't break compatibility as easily) then please post them here.

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Post by eddierosenthal » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:35 pm

by removing support for a theme i suppose any questions related to any theme therefore should also be removed? i find that opposed to the objectives of a useful forum. if you know the answer to a question why would a person find it repulsive to answer it? I can only guess as to that purpose. yes its tiresome, but not for the questioner, whose sole purpose to join this forum was to have a question answered. i might have support or renewed support for a theme, but wanted a quick answer, or posted it here for some other reason. i can understand frustration, and it cuts both ways.

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Post by OSWorX » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:48 am

eddierosenthal wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:35 pm
by removing support for a theme ..
Well, this forum here is no support forum for this theme!
It is a "Community Forum", so if a user wants to post something about and others want to answer, they are free to do so.

But - and that is the main point, more and more support requests, postings about troubles and so on for that theme has been opened in the last weeks here.
That is the point where it is too much - this theme vendor has its own support system (ot should have one) where those people should leave their troubles and ask for help.
They sell it for money, and they have to give support.
If they cannot give support, this here is not the second chance.

Another issue is the fact, that there are "copies" out in the "wild" - those people will get for sure no support from them.
And also not here!

So just in 2 lines:
1. this forum here is about OpenCart and the extensions everybody can buy on the OpenCart Marketplace or/and directly from several OpenCart Developers (like me)
2. it is no forum for themes and templates not sold over the OpenCart Marketplace

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Post by uksitebuilder » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:37 pm

I have created a snippet in a-text that I will use from now on in reply to journal theme related questions when I come across them.

-- Snippet --

Hi,

I see your question relates to the 3rd party Journal theme.

Unfortunately, this is an OpenCart forum for questions and answers related to OpenCart default installations and extensions purchased on the OpenCart marketplace.

Please direct any questions related to Journal to their support team at https://support.journal-theme.com/

-- End Snippet --

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Post by sooty » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:03 pm

I'm running Journal 2.

It was recommended, supplied and installed by an OpenCart Partner, from the Open Cart Partners directory, who did our latest installation of Opencart

If it is so shit, maybe you need to tell your Partners!

We are not all coding Gods, some of us are mere mortals just trying to scratch a living from an ever more difficult environment.

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Post by Johnathan » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:24 am

Journal isn't actually that bad --- their coding is decent, and the way they add extra features is OK (for the most part). It does cause conflicts sometimes because they change so much, but for how big their changes are it actually works pretty well.

I've seen FAR worse themes than Journal. Some of them were so terrible that they completely break third-party extensions, and don't even use the normal OpenCart theme structure for directories and files. Journal isn't a great option, but it's also not the worst. Just be prepared for some potential issues with third-party extensions, which some developers may or may not be able to (or willing) to fix.

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Post by ASG » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:33 pm

I have been a Journal user since 2016 at least and I am pretty happy with the theme. I won't go deep into whether it breaks Opencart or not, because for me it hasn't, and I've had to fix other modules probably twice at max for them to work properly with Journal. But then I can say the same for almost every other commercial module I use. For interoperability, some tinkering would be required when you're putting together a site coded by 30 different devs who are not communicating with each other.

The problem here is that Opencart community forums are obviously not a place for support for ANY commercial module - whether Journal or not. Almost all developers provide support for their commercial modules through their own ticket/support system and not here on community forums. To expect support here would be unfair - both for the developer and the paying user - since it incentivises "not buying" the module.

Ergo, pointing out Journal alone would be unfair, since it is like blaming the developer for user's ignorance - specially when the module is as widely used as the Journal theme. Also, the Journal theme(s) includes several features, which otherwise cost several hundred dollars in modules, which makes it all the more lucrative to "pirates" or those looking to get it for free from blackhat sites at their own peril. Its an easy guess that where these free users seek support. You can't name and shame the module dev for all that. I've seen modules from all major OC devs on blackhat sites - it's not the devs fault if someone breaks something while using those modules & ends up at the most obvious place to seek help.

The Journal support system also costs $35 every 6 months, which is also a huge factor for even legit-users going out-of-support, and hence they post here looking for a solution. FWIW, the Journal support system is as good as any I've come across and DA does provide support for theme compatibility with other extensions, so the burden falls both ways, so to speak.

Lastly, it does irk me that for an Opencart module, they have zero presence here on the Opencart forums. Maybe a presence here, would help alleviate this issue somewhat, specially when other devs/members end up answering questions which Digital Atelier should be addressing.

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Post by Burt65 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:53 pm

ASG wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:33 pm

Lastly, it does irk me that for an Opencart module, they have zero presence here on the Opencart forums. Maybe a presence here, would help alleviate this issue somewhat, specially when other devs/members end up answering questions which Digital Atelier should be addressing.
Are You really wondering why DA doesn't bother to come in here, when people that should know better, call his theme (or piece of software, if you prefer) that sold over 22977 times, a piece of junk? Really??? That's your definition of junk??
I honestly think that DA has no time to waste.. He's busy laughing all the way to the bank..
One of my professor many years ago, pointed out to me that when you point your finger at someone, if you look at your hand, there are another three fingers pointing back at you.
Someone here, has just never learned the lesson, it seems. That's all.. ;)
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Post by psxgamer » Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:32 am

Burt65 wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:53 pm
ASG wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:33 pm

Lastly, it does irk me that for an Opencart module, they have zero presence here on the Opencart forums. Maybe a presence here, would help alleviate this issue somewhat, specially when other devs/members end up answering questions which Digital Atelier should be addressing.
Are You really wondering why DA doesn't bother to come in here, when people that should know better, call his theme (or piece of software, if you prefer) that sold over 22977 times, a piece of junk? Really??? That's your definition of junk??
I honestly think that DA has no time to waste.. He's busy laughing all the way to the bank..
One of my professor many years ago, pointed out to me that when you point your finger at someone, if you look at your hand, there are another three fingers pointing back at you.
Someone here, has just never learned the lesson, it seems. That's all.. ;)
Cheers
+1 for that.

I'm an end user; no coder. Have been using Journal for several years now. They are so far ahead on the competion. Journal completely blows the competiton out of the water. Can only be positive about the theme and the DA team which have great support.

Next to journal I'm using +20 other extentions and my site runs smoothly. If the theme would be so bad as some people on this forum claim to be my site would have completely crashed.

Only thing I've seen since I started using Journal is an increase in sales for the simple reason I can completely configure the lay-out/colors of my site as I want. Journal 3 is more difficult to configure due to the endless possibilties so won't be for everyone but what you can do with it is incredible. Would cost me a fortune if I would have to hire a developer/designer to create the same site from scratch.

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Post by Burt65 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:19 am

ASG wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:33 pm
Would cost me a fortune if I would have to hire a developer/designer to create the same site from scratch.
You hit the nail right on the head. To make the theme more appealing, DA added so much more functionality, that made lots of mods/extension around here, completely useless. That has created some friction..

Also, when you have a problem with Journal, if it is a problem with Journal, Da will fix it for you in a flash. He only sends people here when it is an Opencart problem! You don't need to believe me. Just check his comment's section on Themeforest.
That's why this entire thread doesn't really make much sense. Complaining about people trying to use Opencart with Journal theme and not even trying to make an effort into helping a possible existing or future customer. Oh, yeah. That's the spirit.
Actually, that really is the difference, between a successful developer, and one, that is not!

Same story really, just in a much larger scale, happened with the Avada theme and Wordpress. After selling more than half a million copies, the majority of successful WP plugins developer started to work with the Avada team to improve compatibility between plugins and Avada. When Avada finds another good plugins, they join forces. There is nothing stopping them..

Even here, the good developers, managed to make their Mods/extensions compatible with Journal, as it make sense. Instead of try to fix an extension for everything, you just concentrate for the top seller. That's where the money is..
Johnathan here, is the prime example. He is a good developer, and he is always willing to help if he can, because he's clever. He knows how it works!

I have been using Opencart and Journal plus another 100+ Extension/Mods, ALL OF THEM downloaded and/or purchased here! Some people would love you to believe that because you use Opencart and Journal, you are not welcome here, you are on your own. That's rubbish!!!
If you have a problem with OC, this is the place to ask. If you have a problem with Journal or ANY other extension/Mods, please just ask the developer of such extension. Is not really that complicated.. If you are using both and are in doubt, just ask DA, and he will tell you straight away, if it is his problem or OUR problem..

This forum is here for everybody to help each other in making our dreams happen. I believe that was Daniel original intent when he created the COMMUNITY FORUM.
I have been able to support a family of 5 for the past 7 years, thanks to people like Daniel, DA, Joel and several other developer here, some of which have unfortunately left the OC scene, plus off course several of the community member here..

If I was in Daniel, I would pick the best developer here and join force with Journal. That would make the Ultimate Selling Cart on the planet!
A different approach, could be to make different extension to help people combine WP and OC instead of using WooCommerce. That could be another killer in both sales and coverage.. (75,000,000 WP sites on the planet)
That's my opinion anyway..
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Post by maier » Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:33 pm

The OpenCart philosophy is to be an open platform - Everybody is free to choose a theme he like or maybe design by himself!
I really don't see that the discussion is going into the right way right now!
1. @OSworkX asked to shift problems regarding theme "Journal" to the right place - to the developer. - I fully agree with that!
2. @Burt65 - Nobody ask you or others to change your theme you are free in your choice ... as every other OpenCart user also. But be also fair and make problems of the theme Journal not a problem for the hole community.

There is a rule that a developer as long as he sell his work he also have to give support (as it is written in the product description). Some even give free support even for there giveaways.
And there are plenty of other developers with others themes. We and especially I will not discriminate them with a dedicated development of Journal coding. Theme Journal is one business case and there many others also ... I don't have to like one special solution but I have to respect the developers work so please respect also the open-source community and give them room for there ideas and solutions.

PS. @Clients who like a individual designed shops with a great theme - consider design/coding time cost money!

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Post by Burt65 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:18 am

maier wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:33 pm
The OpenCart philosophy is to be an open platform - Everybody is free to choose a theme he like or maybe design by himself!
I really don't see that the discussion is going into the right way right now!
1. @OSworkX asked to shift problems regarding theme "Journal" to the right place - to the developer. - I fully agree with that!
2. @Burt65 - Nobody ask you or others to change your theme you are free in your choice ... as every other OpenCart user also. But be also fair and make problems of the theme Journal not a problem for the hole community.

There is a rule that a developer as long as he sell his work he also have to give support (as it is written in the product description). Some even give free support even for there giveaways.
And there are plenty of other developers with others themes. We and especially I will not discriminate them with a dedicated development of Journal coding. Theme Journal is one business case and there many others also ... I don't have to like one special solution but I have to respect the developers work so please respect also the open-source community and give them room for there ideas and solutions.

PS. @Clients who like a individual designed shops with a great theme - consider design/coding time cost money!
Perhaps you misunderstood me. All I was trying to point out is that this thread had a very bad start, not because of the subject, but because of the very poor choice of location and wording!

There is no need to shift any problems regarding the Journal theme. Once the user has been notify that IT IS a journal theme problem, and not an Opencart problem, then user then can be "Nicely" directed to contact the developer. There is NO NEED to include into the post your own personal feeling on that matter.
If you do, you are making this "Community Forum" a very sad place to spend time. I never saw once DA telling his user to stop bothering posting comments about Opencart or call it junk for that matter. He just analyses the post and then direct the user to the correct channel. That doesn't seem too hard to achieve the same outcome here. It is also not unpleasant for the user, that in this forum, is the most important person! Don't you agree?
How would you feel if I start to call your extensions junk? And more importantly, what would you think of me?

Very bad choice of location because as we all know, even bad publicity is good publicity, and I really don't think that was OSWorX original intent..
But at the moment it is displayed in every page of this forum. But it is not up to me to fix this..

The rest of your post doesn't really apply to this situation as DA doesn't sell his theme here, therefore he has no need to give support here, and that's a pity.
I actually wish we had more developer like DA in the arena (as far as conceptual ideas).
While I truly appreciate that you will not discriminate other people work, and I take that sentence, as an indication of understanding my concern when a developer calls another developer works junk, I'm failing to see where in my posts I disrespected the open-source community.

I didn't write Journal and I didn't tell anyone what to put into their extensions. You can't blame me for that. I never said that what DA did with his theme was either right or wrong. Is none of my business.
I'm sure that some developers would have been affected by his theme, but that's the nature of the beast. Same thing does happen, when a new version of OC is released and some of the developer's extensions become redundant, because now those line of code, are part of the OP core. I don't think that is based on Daniel disrespect for such developers, but simply because OC is moving forward and becoming better..

I'm not into the development of extensions for OC. But if I was, I can assure you that I would be there right now trying to come up with something even better than Journal, not just complaining about it.
I don't have any problems what so ever, with any of the developers around here and in particularly with OSWorX, the OP of this thread. I always respect his ideas and concepts before. But if we all start to add derogatory comments to our posts, specifically when we are in a position (Announcements) to change people judgements, its simply not right!
Like you said above: "you don't have to like it, but you still have to respect it". Nicely put..

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Post by head_dunce » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:15 am

Completely agree.

It's obvious to me that the coders that complain about something like a theme are just jealous. Of all the extensions that can be created, in my opinion, the theme is the lightest option which also can be the most tedious of work. Sadly, no one has come up with a competitive option. It comes across as a bunch of guys who can no longer make profits overcharging to make one-off themes. Sad really, because they ruin these forums with their old school morals.

I don't want to hear the cry babies about how things are wrong. That goes against the spirit of open source. If it's wrong, and you know better, then show us. Code it up! I look forward to a true competitor for the Journal theme. So far, nothing comes close.

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Post by JNeuhoff » Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:19 pm

head_dunce wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:15 am
Completely agree.

It's obvious to me that the coders that complain about something like a theme are just jealous. Of all the extensions that can be created, in my opinion, the theme is the lightest option which also can be the most tedious of work. Sadly, no one has come up with a competitive option. It comes across as a bunch of guys who can no longer make profits overcharging to make one-off themes. Sad really, because they ruin these forums with their old school morals.

I don't want to hear the cry babies about how things are wrong. That goes against the spirit of open source. If it's wrong, and you know better, then show us. Code it up! I look forward to a true competitor for the Journal theme. So far, nothing comes close.
Sorry if you feel offended by some of the posts here. There is a reason why so many have pointed out the issues with Journal, as well as some of the other themes. There are a number of bad habits with a lot of 3rd party extensions which need to be addressed to improve the quality of OpenCart. This does not just include poor quality web themes, but also other extensions which for example use terrible VQmod or OCmod XML for core file modifications instead of proper event handlers. And then there are extensions with such poor coding standards making their code look like spaghetti. Perhaps a better quality control or vetting process is needed for the OpenCart marketplace.

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Post by kestas » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:34 pm

JNeuhoff wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:19 pm
Perhaps a better quality control or vetting process is needed for the OpenCart marketplace.
Yes, but how to do this vetting? I don't imagine that...
In my opinion, if we have free platform for making money (both... users and developers), we (developers) must follow certain rules. I mean developers must follow OC framework (by definitely do not changing this framework like Journal). Maybe VQMOD AND OCMOD is poor system for implementing something, but this is used now. If developers has better, I think they can offer that new rich system directly to OC. And all will be happy.

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Post by head_dunce » Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:55 am

Perhaps a better quality control or vetting process is needed for the OpenCart marketplace.
That's for sure. Is the marketplace here what funds the guys who write the core code?

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Post by Johnathan » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:39 am

Yes, opencart.com gets anywhere from a 25% to 50% commission from extension sales in the marketplace. That's what funds the support team and Daniel's work on future development.

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