Post by JNeuhoff » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:26 pm

Bear in mind that Journal3 is not available on the OpenCart marketplace. Journal3 is a poorly written 3rd party software, available from the Envato marketplace. The latter has a number of software items which were stolen from commercial or free OpenCart extensions, and we know from experience that Envato won't remove such stolen code when notified. So why should somebody trust Envato?

Anyway, Journal3 has its own customer support. Journal3 has re-engineered OpenCart to such a degree that it has become almost its own ecommerce and blog system, hence you can't expect the OpenCart community to freely support Journal. It's a different story if the user is willing to pay an OpenCart developer for Journal support, especially with regards to other 3rd party OpenCart extensions.

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Post by timstudio » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:49 pm

Doesn't OC have to blame itself for situation like these? After 10 years of OC there are like 5 available theme's that are 'generally safe to use' and the marketplace for extension is 'at your own risk' since there is no quality control. So it really doesn't matter if one installs extensions on basic OC or journal. They probably need fixing anyway because there are more poorly dan perfect written extension. With journal and sites like iSense you know at least that support is given. I've had numerous extension from the OC marketplace were the developer made things worse (non-journal related) instead of fixing.

It wouldn't surpise me if within a couple of years Journal takes over the OC market making it a stand-alone functioning store theme.

Do understand my point of view: I'm not promoting Journal. I just happen to be one of the users that ended up using it without knowing all said above before committing to it. I have been using it for a couple of years know and didn't ran into the doom scenario's as mentioned, even with a ton of installed extensions. if there is a less complex and better solution i will really consider this if my site needs a proper update. I really don't like to go through the steep wall of learning with journal3 again. But the risk of ending up in a jungle of badly written/supported theme's and extension prevents me from active looking into alternatives at this point.

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Post by JNeuhoff » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:40 pm

I don't mind if Journal got its act together and offered their own ecommerce or blog software, this would be a blessing for OpenCart.

As regards market share: Journal has only 20000 to 30000 users, the vast majority of OpenCart users don't use Journal.

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Post by timstudio » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:10 pm

Correct, let's hope tat OC get its act also together. Than everybody can be happy.

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Post by JNeuhoff » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:25 pm

I agree that OpenCart needs a better vetting procedure for its 3rd party software marketplace. One thing is for sure: Journal3 would fail miserably in software quality standards, there is a reason why it's doesn't sell on the OpenCart marketplace. E.g. Journal 3.0.37 has 3429 files, totalling 359.8 MB in size, an absolute overkill for a web theme. It's more like its own system, but they won't tell their customers that!

But as I also said, we don't mind providing support for Journal3 to our own extensions, but it would incur an extra charge as it's not like OpenCart anymore!

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Post by victorj » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:56 am

JNeuhoff wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:25 pm
But as I also said, we don't mind providing support for Journal3 to our own extensions, but it would incur an extra charge as it's not like OpenCart anymore!
I think its absolutie reasonable if a developer will charge to adapt a module to work with a template like journal, or with any modification made to a webshop, if a webshop owner does not have or is not willing to get the skils needed to do it by himself.
This all comes back to my previous post, a developer should see a template as journal as a oportunity to generate extra income.
I know that there are a lot of shop owners who think that a a ecomerce solution should be free of charge, that is fine for small startup, but as your shop grows they have to understand that maintaining and expanding a webshop will also cost money.

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Post by head_dunce » Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:25 pm

JNeuhoff wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:26 pm
Bear in mind that Journal3 is not available on the OpenCart marketplace. Journal3 is a poorly written 3rd party software, available from the Envato marketplace. The latter has a number of software items which were stolen from commercial or free OpenCart extensions, and we know from experience that Envato won't remove such stolen code when notified. So why should somebody trust Envato?
So then why does opencart.com link to them over and over? Take a look here https://www.opencart.com/index.php?route=cms/showcase

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Post by JNeuhoff » Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:57 pm

I don't know. All I can say some of these sites using Journal3 look terrible, bloated and over-complicated, and as an end user I'd try to go to faster sites with easier navigation.

It's like in real life: There are still people who buy those horrible SUVs, others buy smaller but more energy efficient cars.
Last edited by JNeuhoff on Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by victorj » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:35 pm

JNeuhoff wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:57 pm
It's like in real life: There are still people who buy those horrible SUVs, others buy smaller but more energy efficient efficient cars.
But whats more fun ?
A less energy efficient BMW M435 or a battery driven igo? :laugh:
Last edited by victorj on Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by JNeuhoff » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:23 pm

Cars ( = 3rd party OC extensions) need to be more environmentally friendly ( = more compatible with OC), SUVs ( = Journal3) isn't!

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Post by head_dunce » Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:04 pm

victorj wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:35 pm
JNeuhoff wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:57 pm
It's like in real life: There are still people who buy those horrible SUVs, others buy smaller but more energy efficient efficient cars.
But whats more fun ?
A less energy efficient BMW M435 or a or a battery driven igo :laugh:
You lost me at BMW - I'd rather walk than be associated as a BMW driver. I also think turn signals are useful, so I'd never fit in with them. But, if you want to own one, you're more than welcome. I'll gladly change your oil for $500.

And although many SUV owners use them as a status symbol, there are others who tow their boat with them loaded with fishing and camping gear. They do have their place.

Carry on with the banter. It's all just code. G'night!

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Post by victorj » Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:34 pm

head_dunce wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:04 pm
But whats more fun ?
A less energy efficient BMW M435 or a battery driven igo ? :laugh:
You lost me at BMW - I'd rather walk than be associated as a BMW driver. I also think turn signals are useful, so I'd never fit in with them. But, if you want to own one, you're more than welcome. I'll gladly change your oil for $500.

And although many SUV owners use them as a status symbol, there are others who tow their boat with them loaded with fishing and camping gear. They do have their place.

Carry on with the banter. It's all just code. G'night!
[/quote]

If you read again you will see its a open question and not a statement.

I realy like your website BTW clearly a lot af thought and effort, and it shows.
Enjoyed the picture galery.

BTW the most efficient car i saw was a .........
BMW E46 ;D

And some people like journal (BMW) and others like the default theme (IGO)
Its all what a webshop owners wants.
The point of this discussion was that web developers do not want to give free support on this theme to wich i do agree.
so if a webshop owner chooses to use it they will have to accept the fact that maintenance and devevelopment will cost more (BMW) compared to a default theme (IGO)

I do like teh default theme though.

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Post by head_dunce » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:23 pm

;D I got your point, just playing up the banter. :joker:
Some folks on this forum really need to lighten up, and there's no need to comment on every post.

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Post by info@webshop360.dk » Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:45 pm

Have you people bashing Journal ever used it?

It offers some of the most efficient template building tools we have ever come across, making it incredibly easy for us and our clients to use and modify it.
Especially the last part is important for us. Our clients want and demand easy editing options as that is expected based on other systems (Wordpress comes to mind here)

When it comes to efficiency and speed, we can hardly see any difference between OC out of the box and Journal 3 + OC. Normally we can get both to load under 1 sec. So when people complain about Journal beeing bloated in terms of MB I say, whatever. Who cares what it takes up of space on virtual free HD space as long as it performs.

Also, I find it interesting that there is a lot of people complain about the quality of Journals code/functions but are not able to back up their claims with any evidence/examples.

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Post by JNeuhoff » Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:51 pm

We have several clients using Journal3, so yes, I am quite familiar with Journal3 and the issues.

The implementation of Journal3 is quite incompatible for a web theme with the OpenCart standards for no apparent reasons, it could have been done in a more standard compliant way.

E.g. all the choices of colors, backgrounds, images for CSS etc. could be generated in the admin backend once and then be saved in the correct standard folders. And theme-related images should not be stored in the 'image/catalog' folder, the latter is for product images.

Also, Journal3 has overridden at least 79 standard twig files with their own versions. This alone will cause clashes with countless other 3rd party OpenCart extensions.

Also, the Journal3 admin backend is not user friendly. Nor is the bloated look&feel for many of the Journal3 frontend skins.

Journal3 is also bloatware, it has many functions which have nothing to do with a web theme.

And worse, Journal3 relies heavily on OCmod based modifications rather than using proper event handlers. And even worse, it also modifies system/engine core files, there should not be any need for this for a web theme.

There you go, these are just some of the issues Journal3 has, in addition to the usual bugs.

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Post by RajSingh54 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:31 am

Yes I bought 2 licenses from Journal and can't get a hold of their support. I bought one item here on the market place and there were no docs and and all I got back is an automated reply. So Shopify is starting to look cheaper and cheaper. On the other hand the only people who have responded to support items are iSense Labs. If I can switch my iSense stuff to Shopify I think I will drop OpenCart

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Post by xxvirusxx » Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:53 am

RajSingh54 wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:31 am
Yes I bought 2 licenses from Journal and can't get a hold of their support. I bought one item here on the market place and there were no docs and and all I got back is an automated reply.
And after that, you have logged on their website support to check?

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Post by head_dunce » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:50 am

RajSingh54 wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:31 am
Yes I bought 2 licenses from Journal and can't get a hold of their support. I bought one item here on the market place and there were no docs and and all I got back is an automated reply. So Shopify is starting to look cheaper and cheaper. On the other hand the only people who have responded to support items are iSense Labs. If I can switch my iSense stuff to Shopify I think I will drop OpenCart
Odd, I contacted the Journal tech support a few times, and they always got back to me. You do need to send in a proper support ticket.
I also contacted iSense many weeks ago, still nothing back.

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Post by sooty » Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:10 am

I've only commented on this thread once so far,
sooty wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:03 pm
I'm running Journal 2.

It was recommended, supplied and installed by an OpenCart Partner, from the Open Cart Partners directory, who did our latest installation of Opencart

If it is so shit, maybe you need to tell your Partners!

We are not all coding Gods, some of us are mere mortals just trying to scratch a living from an ever more difficult environment.
Those comments still apply.

The definition of a "forum" which is what this place is called, generally, is a place to meet and discuss. It isn't called a "official technical support system". It either needs to operate like a forum or not. Blocking a subject and calling users stupid for their innocent choices is not good, nor what you expect from a civilised forum.

Now I realise this is provided by Opencart, but every Journal user here is also an Opencart user. Some by choice and some by accident, like myself. I doubt very few have bought it to specifically stick two fingers up at Opencart! Opencart is our common ground.

Can I suggest that the Admins create a Journal forum somewhere, probably under "General" or "other" rather than tag it to a particular version of Opencart, and just let us users of Journal help each other. Our common ground is Opencart. We all support Opencart with other module purchases. If developers want to avoid it, avoid it, Opencart can make it clear it is an unsupported section if they need to.

Nothing to stop a developer commenting with "I can fix that for $20, PM me" (unless that is specifically against forum rules).

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Post by kestas » Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:00 am

sooty wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:10 am
We all support Opencart with other module purchases.
But do not support OpenCart, if you purchase Journal...

You always can ask for support Journal theme developers... If you have some issues with the Journal they should help for free.

Custom OpenCart modules and solutions. You can write PM with additional questions... Extensions you can find here


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