Post by drillsar » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:41 pm

I downloaded it to check out the code. I never like to put down a cart but this code is a mess. I look at the extensions as well and it will cost me around $600 just to get close to what I want. I am surprised more sites that run this script don't get hacked with this code to be honest. I am in no way trying to promote another script but if you really are sincere in selling on a site you should go with cs-cart or the new version of oscommerce when that gets released finally if it ever does. The opencart coding needs to be reworked to be honest. I will never run a site with this script.

When I shop online I really try and see what cart they are using. If it's opencart I leave, oscommerce as of now I leave. These scripts are hacked for a reason. Oscommerce team has realized this and reworking the whole code that is why it is taking them forever to release a new version.

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Post by drillsar » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:48 pm

I know people will say this why?

here is just a example why you should never use this script.

The engine of choice for ALL tables, including orders is MyIsam, which first of all shouldn’t even be a consideration in any MySql 5+ setup really, especially for web purposes and second and more important maybe IT DOEST SUPPORT TRANSACTIONS. Simple logic dictates that transactions are a fundamental part of e-commerce, but apparently the team behind OpenCart decided thats not that case!? I am already stunned but lets not stop here… MyIsam doesn’t support foreign keys either, so all integrity and constraint checks are done with PHP, nasty

If I am wrong than I will stand corrected.

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Post by yodapt » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:51 pm

$600? Seems like you got ripped off.

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Post by drillsar » Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:01 pm

I didn't spend $600 I am saying to do what I need for it. I looked at this code and I can't believe people actually use this for selling

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Post by drillsar » Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:04 pm

I have no idea why the heck Opencart is using MYISAM engine for one. I am just trying to give feedback for improvement to this cart.

For one they need to convert to Innodb like asap

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Post by drillsar » Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:06 pm

Once the new Oscommerce comes out Opencart is in serious trouble. I don't see the logic of picking MyIsam that needs to be changed asap. I can go on like 100's of more problems with this code.

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Post by yodapt » Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:07 pm

If you like Oscommerce why are you here?

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Post by drillsar » Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:23 pm

I didn't say I like oscommerce, lol. I am saying why has the developers chose MyIsam over Innodb? Once I saw that I ran for the hills. I am now looking at prestashop that is really nice. However, that is really expensive when you add the modules in. So I guess cs-cart isn't bad for $400 for a lifetime license. OK have fun with this bad coding of Opencart

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Post by yodapt » Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:30 pm

I'm sorry but all I see is hate. If you don't like it, you can choose another, no need to create this posts.

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Post by labeshops » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:32 pm

Haters just want to hate I guess. See no reason for you to come to forums for software you don't like just to hate on it, but to each their own.

Have fun with cs-cart or whatever else you want and I'll keep making money with my 20+ opencart stores I've spent way less than $600 to get exactly as I want them (would be surprised if I've paid half of that).

Running Opencart v3.0.3.2 with multi-stores from https://www.labeshops.com which has links to all my stores.

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Post by IP_CAM » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:08 am

drillsar wrote:I have no idea why the heck Opencart is using MYISAM engine for one. I am just trying to give feedback for improvement to this cart. For one they need to convert to Innodb like asap
So, what's your problem, just change the DB-engine to Inno-DB, Opencart does not force you to keep MyIsam, it's probably just used, because most servers worldwide accept it, by default, as it may not the case with Inno-DB.
https://github.com/atomixdesign/opencart-turbo

But, as others already said, nobody forces you to use OC, especially not the v.2.x Version, it's similar to a Woman, if you don't like her, just don't touch her..., one good reason for my to keep my Wife, as well as OC v.1.5.6.x

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Post by ocmobi » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:56 am

Well there are valid areas of concerns,

INNODB should be the standard now, transactions are very important and should be used in a lot of things open cart does it's not just about using MyISAM but actually using INNODB and supporting it's features like transactions. I think MyISAM is going to be phased out as well, and tokens on the url is a bizarre technique I'm not sure why it's still used...I have a lot of other beefs lol but I have beefs with all CMS, shopping carts, etc. that's why they always get updated nothing is ever 110% and it is software after all that's just life.

One thing I do not like as well is VQMOD/OCMOD, overrides and core hacks are common place which is bad practice. Adopting a cleaner MVC, plugin architecture, and event system is modern programming and would benefit Opencart 2x+ greatly. People are too use to hacking opencart instead they should be extending it and updating it routinely.

I like Opencart, used it for projects, wrote extensions for it. These are just honest developer opinions, but rants and hatred without good clear logical arguments isn't constructive. Good constructive criticism in a respectful manner helps everyone, anything else is just a waste of time. Opencart has serious competitors because all CMS having shopping cart components, and other shopping carts like Magento, Prestashop, and etc. also have huge followings and they're pure shopping cart based.

Opencart has come a long way and it's older, but I think it's time to adopt a framework and toss out some of the code in PHP, you can throw away and plugin a framework without much effort and regain functionality and than some as well as important design patterns and programming techniques and Opencart can gain a lot of traction back.

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Post by yodapt » Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:13 am

@ocmobi,

Now that's something we can lean upon and discuss.

I too am opinionated about OC's practices being myself an ex Kohana develper, which has a core community that is keen on constant improvement and always seeking for better ways to achieve a solid framework.

I agree OC would benefit from a more solid framework and extension / plugin system. Being opensource it would benefit the community to have certain issues covered, for example it's not hard to internally connect the translations to a service that could be used to transfer them in one click, as well as many credited extensions available out there. There is a inner power to communities like this that I feel OC could be taking advantage of, then again it's up to the initial developers to take a stand on the subject. Another subject that I get feedback from clients is the lack of basic funcionality like a better handler for multistore, and a lot more issues but for now I think there's no need to mention them.

Anyway, at the same time OC is relatively simple to tweak, which is something that I enjoy if say I am picked to work on a clients website as developer to customize it as it's required, thus being able to get closer to what the client actually needs, something that I don't find so straightforward in other ecommerce systems.

So there are pros and cons, but definitely room for improvement.

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Post by ocmobi » Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:22 am

Yes, I agree. It is easy to tweak.

However one thing I must say is in other systems it's more effort and hassle to cleanly and "properly" implement a plugin but the end result is much better. Where as it's faster and dirtier for me to tweak opencart, and if the pays the same why would I bother right? Or if the client is presented with option a and option b, the only question I get asked is what's cheaper or they say I need this done now so what's cheaper and faster...lol.

So there's always environmental factors to consider too :S.

One thing I can say is that when I write crap, I hate working with it after. And when people want to update and say "oh god what have I done..." it's a problem that hits you like a ton of bricks at a later date and costs you.

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Post by IP_CAM » Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:45 am

ocmobi wrote:One thing I do not like as well is VQMOD/OCMOD, overrides and core hacks are common place which is bad practice.
Be aware, this is 'borderline' Talk, already, take Care ;) ;) just jokeing!
The way, this 'system' is built, is relying on 'Contributors', as a consequence, there must be a way to enhance a system without touching the Code. VqMod is one of it. So, Hack or not, as long as nothing else exists, able to surpass VqMod Performance and Easynes to work with, there is no alternative...
Every Software Construction has it's drawbacks, at least after a while, when 'new ways of doing it' come into the Scene. Still, if it would not function, it would not longer be used, I assume...
Just speaking for 1.5.6.x, to make that clear 8)
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Post by ocmobi » Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:55 am

@IP_CAM You're right, there are no alternatives and as it stands this is the only way. So nothing wrong with it at all, doesn't mean I like it ;). The only way to solve that problem is as I mentioned before moving towards the plugin architecture, event systems, and a cleaner MVC implementation in the code which is no small tasks and likely not to happen.

So in this environment VQMOD is amazing, but expose yourself to other systems if your a developer and you'll soon see it's not ideal at all. I was once doing somehting in OC and had to rely on VQMOD and database Triggers, my first exposure and I was mortified, than I got used to it lol. But I flip between a lot of systems and use Joomla a lot for example and they actually have their own framework now (joomla framework) and they're mvc, plugin architecture, event system and etc. is great and you see that in the extensions made for the platform and how easy it is to have it do what you want without hacking core or "overriding core" using vqmod but overriding core cleanly via code in a proper fashion. And the best explanation of how that's possible is an event system like,

onBeforeDoThis
-run plugins in defined order

Run base code

onAfterDoThis
-run plugins in defined order

So you it's base code wrapped in events, I can tell it not to process base code let's say by running a plugin and returning false or I can run my code before, and I can run my code after by writing a plugin for that event. Clean, separate, maintainable, and a good design pattern. How these plugins are defined the function signatures also include goodies so in these event functions I usually get parameters depending on the context so I can access certain things like a user event would give me the user being operated on as a parameter for example or I can access things via singleton pattern like the db.

Just very different and it's nice and easy. Laraval, symphony, zend are all good php frameworks. If you write custom stuff laraval makes it effortless to implement plugin architecture and event systems in PHP with little to no code at all so I see something like that as a great framework to incorporate into opencart and improve MVC in OC.

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Post by drillsar » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:23 am

I guess it sounded like I was bashing Opencart. I am saying they need to address these issues in order to really be a good cart that is what I am saying. For a average store owner doesnt know anything about MyIsam and Innodb differences. That is only the base stuff wrong. Prestashop is far best cleanest code out there for a free cart with tons of modules, etc the problem is to add modules is expensive which is a major drawback. If prestashop modules where a bit cheaper they would pretty much take out the competition in my opinion

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Post by drillsar » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:25 am

Opencart is good for people to learn how PHP is done and than move on to a more robust cart like prestashop, oscommerce, cs-cart, etc. Opencart use github for development?

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Post by yodapt » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:37 am

Yes it uses : https://github.com/opencart/opencart

One thing I don't like at all about Prestashop is the use of Smarty tenplate engine, not only it's another layer on top of PHP, it has way too much logic in it, while there are easier sollutions that could be used instead, in case it was really a needed feature. It's also heavier than OpenCart, while most clients dont make use of half of the functionalities it has. But I don't intend to discredit Preshashop development, just my personal opinion as developer.

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Post by IP_CAM » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:21 am

>> if your a developer and you'll soon see it's not ideal at all. <<
your'e riding about the same horse as I do, it took some time to 'fully' understand it as well. By all Logics, noone ever would do something like this in a big Pro-Shop, depending on making a living by serving a couple of thousand Visitors per Day, mostly beeing active and making a lot of orders. This is, at least, one way to look at it.

The other side is, everybody can test and try a lot of 'things', add hundreds of Mod's, one after the other, like me, and masses of others as well. But then, whoever has enough knowledge, can add everything, required, into the source, easy, because it already exists, so, just copy paste the stuff, and you've got it!

That's the way, I see it. NO honest Company would rely on somebody, supplying them with a Shop Software, like OC, modified/enhanced by huge amounts of VqMods, by just another Code-Newbie, anyway, honest Companies have their own peoples for such Jobs, therefore, I really see no problem. My 'final' Shop will not contain many VqMod's anymore, possibly a handful, but, until I ever reach this 'Stage', I am very greatfull to have VqMods, it saves me a lot of time to test, and learn from, whatever is available, first..., it's the Number One way to get familiar with OC!

Plus, Pro-Users don't update RUNNING SHOPS to newer Versions anyway, just for the fun of it, they update, what makes a shop Software more secure, one reason for me, not to bother about rewriting Source, in General...

That's, what I meant... ;)
Coming from Perl + handmade HTML, I did not even know before, that something like VqMod exists... ???
I must be getting old. (69!)
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